How to Rate Your B2B Buying Experience with Bruce Scheer and David Svigel

Bruce Scheer: Welcome to the ValuePro Show, where value pros get value ready. Hi. My name is Bruce Scheer, the host of the ValuePro Show. In this episode, we're talking with David Svigel, fellow cofounder and business partner at valuepros.io. We're talking to him about a very important topic, a buyer centric topic, how to rate your b to b buying experience. Now David is a seasoned expert who works closely with clients to revolutionize their high consideration b to b buying journeys. Together, we've been diving deep into creating a robust framework we call the b to b buying experience index. This episode will unpack the critical dimensions of what makes a great buying experience, why it's more important than ever in 2025, and how companies can use this framework to drive growth and customer loyalty. Let's dive in. Well, David, thanks so much for joining the show. We're gonna have some fun on this one. The title for this episode, how to rate your b to b buying experience. And David, I'm just so excited to get into into this with you. I know we've been working on this so hard lately in framing up what we're calling, buying experience index. So so we'll jump into that, but I guess to begin with, why is this so dang important? Why are we futzing and and rotating so much onto the buying experience? Why is that so important, especially in 2025? 3 really hard hitting, stats that we have, David. The first one is 75. 75%, b to b buyers prefer to have a sales free experience as dictated by Gartner. And that is just such a hard hitting statistic. You know? So something's not going right there. Secondly, 59%. So in the world that you and I live in, we're supporting our clients with their, what I'd call high consideration solutions. So maybe they're disruptive to the client environment. Maybe they're kind of expensive and multiple buyers have to vote in on them or maybe they're strategic, but they're high consideration. So for high consideration bold buying decisions, 59% of the influence on the decision comes from the buying experience, not from the offering. The offering's only 41% of the decision making influence. 59%, way more is on the buying experience. And if that's good or bad, that influences the decision being made. Again, with high consideration deals, not low consideration. And then a final stat here for high consideration solutions, 92% of those buying decisions need to be supported by a business case. So, David, let me review these stats with you just for a minute here. 75% of b to b buyers are saying, hey. Seller run. You know, we don't wanna be part of that situation. 59% of that buying decision is based above and beyond the offering on the experience itself. And then 92% of those buyers need a business case, which I know those sellers aren't providing, especially because 75% of b to b buyers don't wanna interact with sales. Any observations, day David, on the on these nasty stats?

David Svigel: Yeah. I mean, it's it's stuff I hear from, you know, my clients all the time, and and they're struggling to understand, you know, what our buyer's looking for. You you know, they they think they know, and they think, well, we'll just, you know, throw our sales process out there, but, you know, buyers really want, like, trust and clarity and confidence, and and for the the vendor to come across as a a trusted vendor and, you know, or a trusted adviser, and that's just not happening today. So, you know, our my clients are frustrated. Buyers are frustrated. So, it it's really cool that that we've got some good ideas on on how to make this work for both sides.

Bruce Scheer: Absolutely. Yeah. I'd I'd it's this catchphrase that, you know, I don't know if anybody here has seen Apollo. What was it? Apollo 13 or something like that, David? Or Houston, we have a problem. You know, we need to get that that rocket ship back to Earth. We've got a problem. And and we've got a problem here with the buying experience. And that's why we're so, you know, obsessed with it right now, David, and helping clients and helping people kinda look at the world from the buyer's perspective, the the buyer expense, experience perspective. And so, business partner, David, or excuse me, Darrin Fleming and I, we did another episode I'd encourage everybody to check out, talking about the total value experience. And, you know, we kinda broke that down, you know, the difference between a low total value experience and a high total value experience and what gets in the way. So that's just talking about the total value experience, and that's the cumulative impact that the go to market team, the revenue team has at each critical step of the buying journey. That's what we're calling the total value experience. But how do we measure for that? How do we get our heads around? How are we doing in delivering that buying experience? And, David, that's where we put together this b to b buying experience index. So these are some really tangible dimensions where we can measure ourselves on what kind of buying experience are we delivering? You know, is it good, bad? How do we understand that? So we've created some measurable dimensions and formulated again, the b to b buying experience index. And this is research backed. We've, we've used all the AI tools, including Google, Gemini's, you know, deep research and chatty bitty, etcetera. You know, just triangulating around all the different studies that have been, b to b buying studies and what are the factors? What in this instance, we're calling the pillars that make up for how we measure against the b to b buying experience. So this is our framework, David, and we've got, you know, it it's aligned along the buying journey and the in 4 key phases of that buying journey where they need to gain trust in the vendor or or the solution provider and and make sure it's trustworthy to proceed. They need to work with that vendor to clarify requirements. They need to frame value because they, actually need to understand the value themselves and they need to sell that value internally to so they can buy said solution. And, again, 92% of these buyers need a business case in order to do that. And then finally, the final phase is they wanna accelerate impact and they want vendor support, solution provider support to make sure they're getting impact and they're getting it fast. You know? So they get through all the contracting and all that nonsense, but they they demonstrate real value and confirm to themselves that they made the right decision. Most b to b buyers, literally upon signing the contract, David, they have buyer's remorse because they weren't clear in the value that they they expected to receive. They weren't clear in the solution itself, and they have no mechanisms for proving they made the right decision. Hence, they've got buyer remorse. And when buyers have remorse, are they gonna buy again? You know, you know, probably not. They're gonna ditch that contract, especially if it's a software as a service type of play or something like that, and and an easy switch to something else. But this is our framework, David. In any observations at the top level before we kinda dig into it?

David Svigel: You know what? Just, you know, I think it's important to know it needs to be, you know, a holistic experience, so buyers and sellers need to both invest in creating that unforgettable buyer journey.

Bruce Scheer: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So in our model, we've got these 10, what we call, buying experience pillars that that line up under under underneath each one of these phases. So I thought what we do, David, let's go ahead phase by phase and just kinda unpack these pillars and talk about them in terms of what it is and, you know, why it's important and and how b to b sellers and vendors can do a better job of improving the buying experience against each one of these pillars. So, let's start with gain trust, and we'll just go 1 by 1, David, and kinda unpack these. So on gaining trust, we've you know, our 1st b to b buying experience pillar is trust and transparency. So, you know, how trustworthy are we showing up either from a digital to human perspective, you know, from from website, for example, to to that buyer or from g 2 or or other reputable types of reference sites? You know, how are we showing up, digitally to that buyer? And then also personally, you know, with our people, you know, how trustworthy are we as we show up and and transparent? Do do the buyers believe that there's a a degree of transparency where, you know, what they're gonna learn from this vendor is gonna be trustworthy because there's a degree of transparency. David, do you wanna talk to us just a little bit about, you know, you know, why that's important than than how vendors could be thinking about this?

David Svigel: Yeah. I mean, so yeah. Trust and transparency. I mean, that's the the real currency that the you know, how you measure the relationship you have with with your buyer and, you know, to be it simple, just be forthright upfront, share, share timelines, share expectations. Just tell your buyer whether it's good or bad, just tell them what's going on. Don't try to hide stuff. That's, you know, just gonna take you down a bad path. So just think forthrightness is the way to

Bruce Scheer: go. Absolutely. Yeah. And just having, you know, content there that that's credible, trustworthy, you know, especially with the digital to human perspective, you know, of course, your case studies and value studies and things like that, but just, you know, where where there's a degree of transparency and and and content to help and and and just showing up right. So that's the trust and transparency dimension that that pillar of the b to b buying experience next, educational value. So, you know, the definition around this is, are are you educating the customer on, you know, the the problem that they might have or, you know, why they should even be considering interacting with with you said b to b vendor or solution provider. Is there educational value where your buyer would perceive that, you know, hey, that piece of content that I read from, you know, that perhaps the marketing department produced or or that conversation I just had, was there a real insight, real educational value in that? That that's, again, one of these critical buying experience pillars for that b to b buying experience. Tell us a little bit more why that's important, David, and and how do we do that?

David Svigel: Yeah. For sure, Bruce. So I think, you know, people in general have a knowledge mindset, and they want to feel empowered and informed and confident that they're ready to make a decision. So, you know, sellers that are focused on selling instead of educating are at a disadvantage. This is a real opportunity for sellers to help their buyers learn, about the solution about, you know, we just talked about the process and expectations, and that's gonna go a long way to, creating that exceptional buying experience.

Bruce Scheer: Yep. Too true. True. True. Well, let's move on, David, to the 3rd, pillar here for the b to b buying experience, and that's emotional connection. So, you know, this is emotional connection from from brand to buyer. This this is emotional connection, you know, critically for these high consideration b to b buying solutions. It it's from, a revenue team and a seller perspective. You know, be it the seller, be it somebody from marketing, product marketing, product, sales engineering, be it somebody from success that's involved in that buying journey. But, you know, are are you able to create this emotional bond? And how are you doing against this pillar? Why is that important, David? And then how how can people think about going about doing this?

David Svigel: Yeah. Well, so, I mean, buyers, you know, fundamentally, of course, are are no different than than anybody else. You know, everybody, everyone wants to feel that they're heard, they're connected, they're understood. It's just human nature to, to have those emotions and, you know, sellers can get there by just building rapport by listening to their buyers. You know, you can, you can learn so much more by listening to what your buyer is saying than just going down. Pre canned spiel that you rehearsed, and just disregarding the buyer and just like, oh, these are the the 100 words I need to say to close this deal, and it it just doesn't work like that.

Bruce Scheer: Oh, I am telling you. Not not listening to respond. And I I we've got an upcoming episode, David, with, a person that just wrote a book on listening, and he, oh, he founded an improv, theater and place here in Seattle, Washington. And, gosh, to to do great improv, you have to be, you know, one of the best listeners in the world, and he and he kinda breaks that down for the world of DDB marketing and sales that would that we live in. So, but, yeah, as you say, so absolutely critical just to build that emotional bond listening. It's such a key factor that that, people don't focus on. So thanks for highlighting that. So those are the kind of the 3, key pillars under gain trust. Just trust and transparency, educational value, and then emotional connection. Let's let's next talk about clarifying requirements. So, you know, you kinda won that battle. You've gained some trust. Now we're moving deeper into that buying journey and buying experience and clarifying requirements. So let's let's talk about those. We've got a a one of those buying experience pillars under, you know, clarifying requirements would be personalized experience. So what that means is you're you're really not just doing cookie cutter, but you're really doing your best effort to understand that that customer, their needs, and and playing to that and how you communicate and the information you serve up, etcetera. The conversations you have, they're highly personalized to the context of that buyer. David, why is that important and and ideas for how to do this?

David Svigel: Yeah. So, you know, for sure one size fits all is is just going to alienate your buyer. The it's the opposite of what you're trying to do. You want to create that personal connection. As I just said, you you get to that by by listening to people and to understanding what they're saying, you know, paying attention to what their requirements are, what their goals are, and weaving that into the relationship that you're building with them. So do you know, it could be industry specific challenges, role specific challenges, and and recognizing and responding to those is critically important.

Bruce Scheer: Ab absolutely. Yeah. And and, also, I'd I'd argue, David, just really having really great context about that customer. And, you know, maybe it's a new prospect and and you need to use your AI tools, etcetera, to do some fabulous homework to to show up what we call value ready, but really understanding their their context. Or maybe you know that account and and it's repeat visit because you wanna sell them something new and and help them along their journey in different ways. But really understanding their context and personalizing to their context. I used to do, oh, gosh, a little over $1,000,000 a year of consulting with the Hewlett Packard, but I knew their world so well. I knew the executives and what they cared about and some of the people I was serving, some of the buyers, I'd like to go, oh, this executive, this is really important to them. And I and I I was able to personalize because I had just a a high degree of context personalized context to to bring into those, you know, buying and selling conversations. So just absolutely critical to do that versus just showing up products first and generically as you state. So, David, let's talk about solution clarity now. This is one of the other, buying experience pillars. And, what this means is just really making sure the customer has enough context around the solution to clearly see it for what it is, managing their expectations for what it is and what it isn't. But but they they understand that, and you've done enough grounding with them. It doesn't have to be understanding all 160 features, but enough clarity where where they've got comfort and confidence that they understand what it is that they're they're considering. David, any thoughts around why that's important and and how to do this?

David Svigel: Yeah. I mean, clarity is so key. I mean, you know, if you're overly complex in your interactions, in the information you're presenting, in the information you're trying to teach to your buyer, the retention is not there, so complexity is a turnoff. So you just wanna have a compelling narrative that connects the dots between what the buyer's objectives are and what your solution could do from them. It's really simple. Just be crystal clear in how your solution can solve their problems and strip the complexity out of that.

Bruce Scheer: Absolutely. Yeah. And and even, you know, there's a big theme right now in the market, but just doing fantastic discovery and then mapping back with the solution how it solves, like, David, as you're saying, those those acute problems that they see in their context need to be solved for and making that connection real, really super clear. So perfect. So, so we hit on those two points and that was under clarify requirements. Now we'll move on to, you know, the the the next critical part of the buying journey in which we're calling that phase, frame the value, frame value. So we've got 2 buying experience pillars that just need to be nailed to do this properly. So the first one is value articulation and quantification, this this pillar. And this is pretty self explanatory, but just doing a beautiful job of explaining the value from an acute communication standpoint, but then also taking the next step to quantify that value. And all this, of course, is gonna roll into helping that buyer, the 92% of those buyers that require it, to have a business case so they can do their internal selling for you. David, thoughts about why this is important and how to do it?

David Svigel: Yeah. This so this is, you know, the the bread and butter stuff that every sales rep should be striving towards, but, you know, sadly, at times, we're you know, everyone's not quite there yet, but you need to, you know, have your buyers understand the value and believe in the value that your solution can deliver. And you can do that through things like ROI tools or case studies, even success stories you've had with similar clients. So there might not be a case studying sitting in your tool bag, but you still have the conversation with your buyer, you know, companies similar to yours, here's how I help them. So it's just really, you know, communicating that value, which then becomes the cornerstone for the trust and the confidence and places you in the trusted advisor role that you really should covet your relationship with buyers.

Bruce Scheer: Oh, I love what you're saying there. I absolutely love it. Some 2 stats that are, oh, just a little over a year old, I think. But one of them is 87% of b to b buyers, expect to be interacting with a trusted adviser, And then 88% of b to b buyers will only buy from somebody who they perceive as a trusted adviser. And I like how you tied that, David, back to this importance of value value articulation and quantification that, you know, you do that well, you are a trusted adviser. So, and which is expected and required to to help that customer buy from you. So, David, let's talk about, one more here, and that's, confidence and risk mitigation. So as it relates to the buying experience pillar of confidence and risk mitigation, what this means is you're instilling confidence and and you're minimizing or taking away risk as part of the buying decision. And, David, you just talked about, you know, loading up the value proposition, quantifying that, and having some evidence around that, but I think that really helps here too. What what what would you have to add to this?

David Svigel: Yeah. I mean, you know, so we're talking, you know, high consideration deals, so there's risk. Right? And you need to, you know, instill that confidence in buyers that they're making the right decisions. So we've talked about it earlier, educate your buyer, inform them, help them feel confident that they're making the right decision. You know, use customer testimonials if you need to rely on market research, you know, you know, magic quadrant, maybe your solution's represented in the magic quadrant. So use that to your advantage. Use that information. Try to assure your buyers that they're making the right decision at this point.

Bruce Scheer: I love it. Yeah. And that social proof is your highlighting. It's just so absolutely critical, making sure that, oh, the management team sees what are the potential risk areas. You know? So in in the business case that's being shaped, you do wanna show potential risks and being really clear and upfront and transparent with the buying committee about that as part of the business case, but then also have ideas for how to ever overcome those risks and also some social proof of others that have had success. I I think that all flows into building up this confidence and making sure you're you're taking the the wind out of some of those risk areas that might get in the way, of buyers buying from you. So I think we hit that, David, on framing value. And, again, this is just fly over to do it right. You know, easy to say, not not so easy to do. You gotta do this right, and that's why top top b to b sellers are are earn their paycheck, of course. But then the, the 4th phase here is accelerate impact, and let's unpack some of those key pillars for the buying experience for accelerating impact. The first one's collaboration and partnership. So what this means is how would the buyer rate you on your collaboration and partnership with them? Were were you responsive? Were you, you know, really kind of to to, 22 peas in a pod, you know, really tight at the hip working together to shape that value, shape that buying experience, you know, help that buyer buy more easily from you in that spirit of collaboration, co constructing the value proposition and that partnership, showing that commitment to win. So that's the definition. But, David, any any thoughts on, you know, why that's important and and how to approach this?

David Svigel: Yeah. So, you know, it it goes back to, something I said at the very beginning. You know, the the buying journey needs to be an investment by both parties. You know, so buyers need to engage and participate and sellers likewise need to engage or participate to create, you know, the open dialogue that's required to, you know, as you said, Bruce, you know, co create the value narrative, co create the solution. What's what's the best answer here. So it's it's not, you know, a process of 1 person or one side of the, the buying experience dominating here really needs to be collaboration to achieve alignment.

Bruce Scheer: Oh, cool. You know, well well stated. Well stated. So let's hit on a few others. The next buying pillar would be process efficiency. And so how how was the buying process? Was was there much friction in the process, or were there things missed that derail the whole thing? I I you know, for example, you get all the way, get ready to, you know, you create a contract and, you know, then the question comes up, have we gone through information security? You know, no. And then, oh my god, you know, then lose another month and, you know, things that we could, you know, the, you know, the the revenue team and the buyer could have gotten in front of and they didn't. Just how efficient and effective had was that buying journey, the buying process? That's what this means. David, help us understand the importance and how to how to do this.

David Svigel: Yeah. So, I mean, buyers are just really looking for simplicity and for sellers to outline for them what needs to be done next. So we talked about communicating expectations. It's critical. You you don't want the last, you know, the last minute proverbial monkey wrench thrown into the deal. So like you said, Bruce, get out in front of it, be proactive, and and collaboratively figure out what the next steps are and make it simple for your buyer is really what it boils down to. It's just making it simple.

Bruce Scheer: Love it. Love it. Alright, David. Well, let's, round the corner here. This is our final, pillar of the b to b buying index, and how to rate ourselves against it, and that's the post sale commitment. Now, David, we have another episode of the ValuePros Show, and it's it's talking about first impact. And so what this means, post sale commitment, is making sure things are getting installed and set up and people are adopting and, you know, you know, so you're assimilating the solution in the context of that that buyers, the buyers universe, that organization. But even more so, you are also helping your buyer demonstrate value, confirming they made the right decision to to, you know, buy from you, and and that's what we call first impact. You know? So identifying something that's measurable and then measuring against that. Maybe, you know, a quarter or a couple of months after they've, you know, signed contract and you've started to implement, you know, they're getting an indication of success and the and the value that's being promised. That's what this means, post sale commitment. David, any thoughts on why that's important and and how to go about this?

David Svigel: Yeah. I mean, just, you know, buyers react so favorably if if they hear from the seller. Like you said, 2 months later, like, oh my gosh. I I never thought you'd call to see how we're doing. You know, we've we've had these challenges and these successes. So, you know, sellers can work to help resolve the challenges and celebrate the successes. And, and the real value there is you're just building a loyal customer that's gonna become an advocate for you, and that and that's just crucial to your, you know, personal sales success is having buyers advocate for you.

Bruce Scheer: I love it. Love it. Well, David, this has been a fun one. You know, we've covered a lot of ground here. I'll swing back to the, framework itself, you know, just to anchor some any any other observations or thoughts that we wanna share with our audience. But, you know, just the buying experience index, you know, 10 key pillars that we have under 4 key phases. And, you know, it's a way to rate yourself against the buying experience you're providing to your buyers. And so, you know, you you provide a better buying experience. People are gonna buy more and more often and certainly less discounting pressure, faster sales cycles, a lot of different benefits of getting this right. And we talked a lot about the benefits in in, the episode that Darrin Fleming and I did on total value experience. So I'd encourage everybody to check that out. But this is a way this is a rubric or or where you can truly measure how are you doing against these 10 critical buying dimensions buying experience dimensions. And I haven't seen anything like this in the market, David. I don't know if you have as well, but I think we're we're cutting into some new territory here where we're gonna help some of our b b to b, clients with high consideration solutions. Think think more deeply and and act more deeply against the the buying experience that they're providing. And and these are 10 dimensions as kind of guidepost or pillars to help them move move towards and do a better job against. Any other thoughts you have, David, just in in summary thoughts about this?

David Svigel: Yeah. Just I I think it's so important that, you know, product marketers and sales enablement leadership and revenue teams recognize that, you know, it's not the solution that is going to fuel your growth, fuel your growth. It's the buying experience that's going to fuel growth, and it needs to be an investment by all parties involved. So everyone needs to engage and align and communicate in transparent and simple ways. And that's really the the key to success.

Bruce Scheer: I I like what you say, and and, gosh, if you're intrigued on this, everybody listening or watching, we have another episode featuring Scott Preci, one of our affiliates, on the connected revenue, you know, you know, that that whole function, how everybody across success product marketing and sales, if that's connected well, it'll really juice this buying experience, and and you'll score so much better against these dimensions when everybody's working in concert. So definitely check out that other episode on connected revenue with Scott Pressi. I I hope you'll love that too. Well, David, just in conclusion, thanks for walking through all this with us, and, that that was really helpful. What an enlightening conversation with David Svigel about transforming the b to b buying experience. We learned about the b to b buying experience index, a powerful framework to measure and improve the buyer journey across the key phases where buyers form impressions about us. From gaining trust to clarifying their requirements, to framing the value so they can sell internally, to accelerating impact so they are grateful versus remorseful about the buying decision they made with us. One of the biggest takeaways for me was the statistic that 59% of the, buying decisions for high consideration solutions hinge on the buying experience, not just the offering. This really drives home the point that the experience we create as marketers, sellers, and product leaders can be a bigger differentiator than the product itself. Think about that for a while. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe to the ValuePro Show. And if you're feeling kind, leave a review so others can find and enjoy it too. Thanks for tuning in, and I'll see you next time.