How to Win Early Adopters Faster with Bruce Scheer and Brendan McAdams

Bruce Scheer: Welcome to the ValuePros Show where value pros get value ready. Hi. My name is Bruce Scheer, the host of the ValuePros Show. In this episode, we are talking with Brendan McAdams. Brendan is a seasoned b to b sales expert and fellow author who helps early stage startups and founders accelerate their sales success. His experience and advice relate to any team focused on early go to market success. Now Brendan's newest book, Sales Launch, Win Your Early Adopters Fast, delivers actionable insights and strategies to help go to market teams and entrepreneurs land critical early customers. If you've struggled to find the right customers or want to accelerate your go to market success, this episode is for you.

Bruce Scheer: Well, Brendan, thanks so much for joining the ValuePros Show. I'm so excited for this episode. I, personally read your book, early release copy of the book, and thank you so much for sharing that with me. And boy, oh, boy, I Brendan, it it just, profoundly struck me because I've started a new firm, and I'm trying to win customers faster, hence the title of our episode, how to win early adopters faster. And, and, also, you talked about the importance of the founder in the book really kinda owning the sales ball, not not delegating it off, not outsourcing it, not not trying to, you know, run away from it, but but truly embracing that as such a critical success factor in growing your new business. And, of course, you and I talked about that in relation to any new go to market initiative. You know, even if you're, you know, Hewlett Packard, for example, you're a small team, new storage solution, you need to hit the market and do that right. You need early adopters faster.

Bruce Scheer: So it's not just for startups. It's for entrepreneurs within an organization that go to market team that really wants go to market success. And you've, again, written this fantastic book, Sales Launch, Win Your Early Adopters Fast and, by Brendan McAdams. It's out on Amazon. I encourage everyone to go grab a copy. And, one thing I loved about your book the most, Brendan, is how short it is. You know, it's it's not 80,000 words of bloat and and everything else. It's it's like the book I wrote. It's light, rich in nutrient, and very light in bad calories.

Brendan McAdams: Yeah. It well, it's, the idea behind it is, you know, a lot of the people don't have that much free time to absorb something, and there's so many there's so many distractions and obligations that a founder has that that a a any kind anyone that runs a business has. And so I wanted to have something that someone could very quickly absorb, you know, consume, absorb, and then pass on to somebody else. So that was the that was the logic behind it.

Bruce Scheer: Oh, I love it. Have you ever heard the the phrase busier than a one armed carpenter?

Brendan McAdams: Yes.

Bruce Scheer: Yeah. One of my old bosses used to love to say that, you know, busier than a one armed carpenter. And and, you know, when you're on some sort of a new go to market initiative, you are busier than a one armed carpenter. Who has time to read a big, huge, thick book? And and so, your your insightfulness and, courtesy in not wasting time in just getting to the points, is fantastic in this book.

Brendan McAdams: Appreciate that. Thanks.

Bruce Scheer: Oh, thanks. Well, tell us a little bit about you. And most importantly, Brendan, why are you so darn passionate about helping go to market teams acquire new customers faster?

Brendan McAdams: Well, I spent a lot of time in the kind of the startup space and in the, in the, in the tech space and, with even with larger companies that are launching a new product and so forth. And in the course of all that, I ran over an accelerator for a while, and I've, taught a lot of early stage startups and founders and so forth. And there are certain patterns keep emerging, and and bad bad habits keep emerging, and that I'd that I'd spot. And, and so I I really wanted to spend a little time focusing on trying to simplify and kind of demystify some of those those those obstacles that get in the way for a lot of people that are trying to adopt trying to get adoption of a new of a new idea, a new product, and and how to make that happen, more effectively, less painfully. That's where I was aiming for.

Bruce Scheer: I love it, man. I can tell also, Brendan, you got a heart for sales. You wanna help people. Have you I don't know if you heard this phrase during the pandemic. It was called, helping is the new selling.

Brendan McAdams: Oh, really? Okay. No. I didn't yes.

Bruce Scheer: But, no. I can tell you you wrote that book for good reason. You want you know, you've seen the pain. You've seen the, the frustrating mistakes, and, you're trying to help people get ahead through that book. So so it's wonderful. Well, let's, let's turn the corner and just, you know, as, any awesome consultant, you know, you you bring a framework in in terms of how to help people, and this is featured in your book. But can you, just give us a flyover of, you know, how to win customers faster, especially, you know, taking advantage of your framework? And and, of course, we'll drill into a few of these pieces here, but just give us a an overview of this, how you came to

Brendan McAdams: it. Yeah. So so first of all, there there are a number of components to it. The the the the former the first the first few, components in the framework are really focused on getting initial momentum and and traction and and and getting, and getting the point of a yes. And then the the latter half are, how do you scale? So so I thought that for for this conversation with any kind of an enterprise of any size that's looking to get, traction around new idea, we would focus on that first half of them, the framework, which is around mindset, messaging, alignment, agreement. And the the idea behind that, Bruce, what I'm what I'm really trying to get at is the first thing you have to do is is is have the right frame of mind. This is particularly important with founders and entrepreneurs. And a lot of times, those those people are are not salespeople.

Brendan McAdams: They're they may be technical. They may have some sort of a kind of a, operational background or so forth. And so sales isn't their natural, you know, kind of footprint or their or their stance. They're not focused on sales. And in a lot of cases, they view sales with at a distance. You know, it's manipulative. It's not pleasant. You know, it's a it it's a necessary evil kind of a thing.

Brendan McAdams: And and so the first thing I try and do is is get them to think about sales in a very different way, which is Mhmm. That it's really not about trying to force someone into a decision. It's it's much more about trying to help people, and it's, and and see if there's a fit. So it's really much more it's as much detective work and analytical work than it is, you know, selling. It's you know, you're not really trying to convince them within so much as get them to understand and figure out whether or not there's a, an opportunity to work together. And the the the kind of the the pleasant surprise there is if you're an operational person, if you're a a technical person, you've got a, you know, engineering mindset and so forth, you're you actually have a lot of skills and capabilities that lend themselves to being good at that process. If you don't think of it as sales, if you think of it as trying to do discovery and figure out where the fit is and where the problems are and that sort of thing. And by doing so, that takes a lot of the burden off the the the the person, handling or or driving that new idea, that new product, the new company forward.

Brendan McAdams: So that's that's where you start is with, you know, getting people to think about things a little, differently than they do. And that's that's a surprisingly big challenge for a lot of a lot of folks. They don't they don't wanna go and meet with people. They don't wanna talk to people. They wanna sit at their desk or a cafe or wherever and build, you know, and create. And you get that. I get that totally, but at the same time, the the chances of creating the right thing are limited if you're not if you're not having conversations with a lot of people, early on to get feedback and perspectives and understand what the, you know, what the obstacles are and also understand, like, the the constraints and the kind of the the the lay of the land of the industry or the problem you're trying to solve.

Bruce Scheer: You bet. You bet. There's a lot to unpack on this, Brendan, for sure, you know, because that is the biggest rock, and you highlighted that in the book, mindset. Brendan, an an another friend of mine, fellow author, Mark Hunter, was on, the ValuePros Show, fairly recently. People could find that episode. But, god, he really nailed it, I felt, Brendon. He said sales is not something you do to someone. It's something you do for someone.

Brendan McAdams: Right. Yeah.

Bruce Scheer: And that that shift in mindset, you know, that you're you're being valuable to someone else that that you highlight in the book really well. It's just absolutely critical. And, I've got this mentality that if if you're a leader, you're in sales. If you're influencing anyone to join your your cause, to to offer funding in your cause, to work on your cause, You know, you're you're you're influencing others. You know, by definition, you're you're in sales in my opinion. Right. But but a lot of people have this really weird, hang up when it comes to selling what they have to offer to other parties externally.

Brendan McAdams: It's but it's it's not even weird. It's sort of it's been kinda built into the kind of our you know, into the into our culture to some degree. There you know, you know, there have been a lot of bad salespeople out there, a lot of very manipulative people, and there's a lot, you know, the, there's, you know, movies and so forth. I mean, Glengarry Glen Ross, the you're right. Rain, you know, 1st place. Right? Cadillac. 2nd place, steak knives. Right? Every every salesperson

Bruce Scheer: Coffee is for closers.

Brendan McAdams: You know? Right. Right. Right. Right. So that those sorts of things, you know, perpetuate themselves. But, but, yeah, I I I always think of sales as helping people make a decision. Right? It's like and the decision may very well be, no. This isn't for me.

Brendan McAdams: And and you as a founder, as a the person driving the idea, the entrepreneur, the the person that's running the business, the the the idea, it may be very well it's you have the same ability. No. I'm not selling this to you. You're not a good fit for me. And and if you're the founder and you can walk away from a deal because you don't think this is the right customer for you, they're gonna be a big burden. They're gonna they're gonna be a resource hog. They they they don't understand what the product does. They're not sophisticated enough.

Brendan McAdams: They're they're gonna they you know? Whatever the reason is, if you have that ability to also say no, then that's puts you on a much more of an even playing field. And so you you can start to think about selling much less as this manipulative thing you're doing, but but instead looking for the right sort of partners. And, frankly, what I and I just got done with, being involved in a a webinar coaching session where where that was one of the things that came up over and over again is how do you get the first customer? How do you get the first couple customers? And and they're you know? And I I talked to one of my clients yesterday. Same thing. He's like, just the first one. How do I get the first one? And so you know? And you can but there are ways to do it.

Bruce Scheer: Absolutely. And but what's the reward? Let's talk about the big why. So you gotta get the mindset right. Get get past any hang ups you might have about sales. But then what's the reward? Why do you need those early customers?

Brendan McAdams: Well, the there's any so many people, you know, again, you know, you're getting getting them to think outside the box in terms of, hey. Sales isn't this this, this, necessary evil, but it's actually something that can advance my career. Right? For example, many of the best CEOs, you know, and most famous CEOs are salespeople. And so you you if you wanna be if if you're a founder, if you're running a business, if you're running a division inside a company, being able to sell and and and, you know, and and understand a a sales situation and break things down and, and work with a customer around or, or or whomever is looking to make a decision, that's a skill that that that, a, keeps you in front of the keeps you running your own company. It, allows you it gives you opportunities for advancement, those sorts of things. But more specifically and more immediately, you know, getting their first sale, their first key sales can be instrumental to driving product direction. It can be it it gets you your first, your first, references and your ROI, you know, ROI and case studies and testimonials. Those things are invaluable.

Brendan McAdams: It it it's motivating, right, for your team as you grow your team to having a cuss that first win, the first customers to work with. Those are all kind of fundamentally important. And then, of course, you know, one of the things I talk about a lot is there's a there's a tremendous, glamour with running with, fundraising. Right? With with for a start up company to be able to go and get funding, right, from a VC. But the the attractiveness of getting sales first before you go after funding is you, a, you get much better terms. Right? Because you've got a revenue stream. It's much more likely to get funded, and you're gonna get it under better terms. And secondarily, you you may need less money.

Brendan McAdams: You may need no money. Right? And and that allows the people inside the company to own more of their own business as opposed to selling it to a VC. I mean, VCs play a very valuable role. You know, investors play a very valuable role, and there are certain businesses where you need a lot of money to scale, Uber, for example, or Airbnb. But but there are a lot of other businesses where, you know, you can boot strap it to, you know, 1,000,000 of dollars, especially if you can get some of those first early customers to to to get that flywheel going.

Bruce Scheer: Excellent. Excellent. Yep. So those are some of the big wins. And, also, gosh. I as part of my storyline in terms of getting a great narrative together, I think you'll probably cover some of that messaging. But when you're landing deals, and everything's economically starting to spin right, life gets a lot more fun.

Brendan McAdams: A lot a lot less stress. Yeah.

Bruce Scheer: Or or good stress, invigorating stress.

Brendan McAdams: Well, ultimately, that's one of the things is, like, revenue solves a lot of problems. Right? There's nothing quite like revenue to, a, it validates your product. Right? It it's a it's valid it's you're on the right when someone's writing you a check or paying you for something that you built, then you know you're on the right track. Right?

Bruce Scheer: Yeah. Yeah.

Brendan McAdams: That's the that's the only you know, telling your your mom telling you she likes your product is nothing. Right? Right? But but having a customer that you don't know very well write a check and pay pay you money, That's validation. Yeah. Yeah.

Bruce Scheer: Yeah. That that's delivering value. That's the exchange. That's that's the lifeblood of the business, especially at that precious early start of the go to market initiative or even even a new company. Well, so I think we covered that really well, and we talked about mindset. Do you wanna talk about messaging for a bit as part of your framework?

Brendan McAdams: Well yeah. So so part of, a a a critical part of of getting that initial traction and finding those the the right initial people is starting to is is figuring out how to communicate what it is you do. And and this is very much of a back and forth. This is a a very kind of a organic sort of experience, and there's a fair amount of, dialogue and interaction that needs to take place if you're gonna do this well. You have to find ways, and I and I mentioned this early on is, like, a lot of a lot of founders, a lot of people with a good idea will wanna completely build that idea before they set it out into the open. And that's almost always a mistake because that fear that someone else is gonna take and run with that idea is overblown. And instead, what you do is if you can get out in front of other people and say, hey. This is what I'm cooking up.

Brendan McAdams: Then, you you can get a lot of very important feedback. And so, you know, from a messaging standpoint, this is where this whole notion of discovery comes in. It's such an important part of it of the process. And that is, how do you get in front of people? You know, who how do you identify them? And I talk about this a little bit, you know, fair amount in the book. How do you identify the right early adopters? And then and then how do you conduct a conversation that's productive for both you and for them? And and so one of the things I would say, right out of the gate, is when you have something to show a customer, in the very beginning, you probably don't wanna show them anything. You wanna just talk to them and say, hey. This is what I'm thinking about doing, blah blah blah. And if you talk to the right people, they're gonna start to weigh in and say, well, here's something you you think about.

Brendan McAdams: Here's something else you have to think about. And then what you might do in that same idea and this does build to the point of messaging, because it's gonna help you figure out what it is you actually wanna say as you move forward in your in your in the sales process and with the next the next prospect that you talk to. And that is you wanna go to the customer or your prospect or whomever you're you're having these discovery conversations with and show them something that's almost intentionally imperfect.

Bruce Scheer: Yes.

Brendan McAdams: And and and give them something that's really rudimentary, or give them something that's got flaws. And so don't build. I often say don't build. Right? Build, you know, create something in PowerPoints or create something that's on sketches or use, I I even hesitate to tell you to use Figma or something like that because it's just too much effort. Yeah. But in the beginning, you what you wanna do is put something in front of them that says, oh, this is this is crap. And I can and and and that gives them the freedom to say, you know, and you'd and, you know, to say, oh, you got this wrong, or you really need to do this, or you're missing this thing, or I like this, but you know? And and when you can do that, then you can come back to them again with the next iteration, and you've incorporated a lot of their new ideas. And not only do they see that, oh, this person's making progress.

Brendan McAdams: And they but they also they listen to me, and, oh, I'm sort of bought into this idea because, you know, they're making the thing that I'm telling them to make. And so you're kind of you know, if you're talking to the right people, then you're almost creating they're they're they're helping you to create that product. And as they do, they're invested. And so at some point, they're gonna say, oh, I I need this. Right? And I could use this, and then and then you're off to the now now you're off to the races.

Bruce Scheer: Absolutely. Now it is such a great point. I've got a funny one for you, Brendan. I was doing a project for Adobe, and I've been building whiteboards for sellers for years for exactly as you say. You know, you show up, but nothing has to be hard coated. It's even nice when it's kinda rough around the edges, like like a whiteboard with stick figures, etcetera.

Brendan McAdams: Oh, yeah.

Bruce Scheer: Sure. So so you can drive more engagement. But I had this ex Adobe executives, like, going, Bruce, we've got the best software and the best designers in the world. Why in the hell would we ever let our sellers whiteboard in front of a customer? And, Brendan, I told him this story. I told him this story, but I've done a ton of work with Microsoft. Microsoft even built a piece of software to turn their websites into, sketches, sketch looking Yeah. So they could test them for improvement. Because when you come to customers with something that's really super duper glossy, they kinda turn off.

Bruce Scheer: You know? They they you know, you're not open. You know? They they they might assume. Yeah. They don't wanna say anything bad because you've already kind of done it. You know? So show up more more inclusive, more inviting, little bit of a canvas, and and that's how you can create that engagement.

Brendan McAdams: Yeah. Yeah. And that's and that's and that's especially true in when you're when you're trying to get traction early on. Right? When you you don't ex and you don't exactly know what the product is. The product's in, you know, in a in a state of flux. It's still you know, it could go this way. It could go that way, and that's where that's where, you know, having a bunch of conversations with a bunch of people that are, you know, either in or, adjacent to the market you're in is is just so critical.

Bruce Scheer: Great. Great. Great. Hey. Why don't we, turn the corner and talk a little bit about a couple of other dimensions, alignment and agreement?

Brendan McAdams: Yeah. So so, so a natural and the the thing about this is, you know, this is kind of a natural progression. You go and and then this whole idea of of mindset is mindset to messaging to alignment to agreement. It's it just there should be a natural flow to it. And the idea, again, behind this is if you're if you're someone that's that's, you know, of a technical nature or an operational nature or new at sales or sales isn't your primary responsibility, you find this this allows you it it it has a natural flow to it. And the idea is is you you you start to have these early conversations with people, and and they're very interactive. And they should always be very interactive, and and there's a lot to the whole discovery process, how to how to how to manage a a conversation, how to have a series of like, I I actually have a a discovery documents that I, you know, that you can work from. So you can kind of you can kind of have a strategy on how to cover your key you know, make sure you uncover the key things you wanna learn.

Brendan McAdams: And, and then what happens is that you you'll get to the point where you'll start to see natural alignment with your customer. Your customer the person you're talking to, you're start gonna start to see a lot of, oh, I get, you know, I get it. And or, yeah. This makes sense. Or yeah. Yes. Yes. And you'll and and so when you get to that point, what you're doing is you're really you're you're really you're you're self identifying who is a good prospect.

Brendan McAdams: This is why it's important to have a lot of different conversations with a lot of different people because, a, it helps you to further understand, you know, what's the scope of your application or your solution and and what things are you you know, what features and functions and and and obstacles and constraints you have to contend with. And so you can address them during early stages before you're you've hard coded everything into the solution, whatever that happens to be, but it also kind of naturally lends itself to a a a purchase to the there's gonna be a point where the customer says, oh, I need this. And if you're having enough conversations, then a certain number of customers, a certain number of prospects are gonna are gonna get to the point where they say, oh, yeah. I get this. This is what I want. Yeah. You're you're on you're on track. Or or they're gonna say, if you're talking in the right, like, neighborhood, you know, of people in the right constituents, so to speak, you're gonna get the point where they're gonna say, the I see what you're doing here.

Brendan McAdams: This person would use this. You should talk to that so and so. And so at that point, you're getting a a warm introduction to someone somewhere else, and that sort of thing. And so, the this whole alignment thing is kind of a natural consequence. An agreement is a natural consequence of this the the process you're going through. And it lends itself to you know, for engineers or anyone else, you know, someone who's not naturally a sales born salesperson, if you will, it it you you have a lot of the right skills. And and in some cases, you know, a non salesperson is especially equipped because they're technically knowledgeable. They're they are an expert in certain areas.

Brendan McAdams: And one of the things you're gonna see in in the course of the these discovery conversations is you're gonna see a lot of the same patterns are gonna arise. You're gonna you're gonna hear if you're doing it right and you're talking to the right people, you're gonna hear the same sort of problems arise. Oh, I have this problem. That's then you're on the right track. Or, oh, I this this this can save me a lot of money. And and and and then the next question is, really? How much? Like, how how, like, why would this save you money? And they start to explain why, and now you're backing into or or you're you're stepping into, the value proposition. You're able to say, oh, like, if it saves you x, then I can charge, you know, 30% of x, and it makes sense for you. And so when they come back and they say, alright.

Brendan McAdams: How much is this? And you already know it cost it saves them a $100,000 a year. You could send them a sell them a license for 20,000, and you know that they'd be they it'd be it'd be foolish for them not to sign up.

Bruce Scheer: That's great, Brendan. And he and, I love your point around just getting enough at bats because, you know, you're get you're gonna start swinging it out of the park because you're just gonna learn along the way. I do the same thing when I help organizations craft their their narrative. You know, first, I talk to everybody involved in the go to market team and get their perspectives on that. But then we we craft and then we go test. And and normally, after I test it, say, up to 10 times, it starts to starts to get dialed in, and then you can start, you know, repeating that and and and getting everybody else on that wavelength as you you hire your sellers and and get people up to speed.

Brendan McAdams: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it and Mhmm. And you'll start to see that sort of momentum.

Bruce Scheer: Well, this has been a great discussion so far, Brendan, on how to win early adopters faster. And and back to your your model, you know, we looked at, you know, the the mindset, the messaging, the alignment, and agreement that really gets the ball rolling where you need lots of that batch and and where you can start to dial things in as you talked about for for all the wonderful reasons. So why don't we, break here? Because I know people can grab your fabulous book. And how can people get in touch with you, Brendan, just to carry the dialogue further and principally get your help in knocking down some early wins?

Brendan McAdams: Oh, well, thank you for asking. So you can, reach me at, Brendan at BrendanMcAdams.com. And, and what I typically do is you know, my specialty is work with early stage, companies, companies that are working, that are looking to accelerate their sales. That could be early stage founders, especially in health tech. That's I have a lot of background in health tech. And then, yeah, and then we can set up initial discovery call, you know, a 30 minute chat and see where it goes from there, and it's so it's you can obviously LinkedIn. You can connect with me via LinkedIn as well, but Brendan McAdams. So it's BrendanMcAdams.com, and it's Brendan at BrendanMcAdams.com.

Brendan McAdams: And that's Brendan with

Bruce Scheer: an n. McAdams for everybody. McAdams is m c a d a m s. Brendan and Yeah. We've got it. Scottish. Alright. Yeah.

Brendan McAdams: Yeah. Absolutely.

Bruce Scheer: Yeah. You must be tearing off my name, Bruce. I I've got a little bit of Scottish blood, I think. So, anyways, we can we can be friends, Brendan, for sure.

Brendan McAdams: Certainly.

Bruce Scheer: Well, thanks so much, Brendan. This has been really valuable. I hope people grab your book, and and that'll just give them the juice and the mindset to kick off this whole, thing and and be very successful with their new go to market initiative.

Brendan McAdams: Well yeah. And if and if if you email me and, and mention the podcast, I'll just send you a PDF of it if you want.

Bruce Scheer: Sweet. Sweet.

Brendan McAdams: Yeah.

Bruce Scheer: That's generous of you. And then everybody, you can find it on Amazon as well. And and be like me, leave a nice review. Any any author loves that. So, Brendan, it's been a great episode. Thank you.

Brendan McAdams: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very good, Bruce.

Bruce Scheer: And that was a great conversation with Brendan McAdams. We talked about the importance of mindset, messaging, alignment, and agreement when it comes to winning those all important early adopters. Now his practical advice on getting that batch through conversations was probably one of my favorites because it allows you to refine your messaging and your offering with with valuable feedback. And I also appreciated his point about embracing healthy, not selling, having that mindset, and finding that incredibly valuable. One of my favorite takeaways was to show up with ideas and assets that are just a little bit rough around the edges. It invites collaboration, builds buy in, and helps you find the right fit with your customers early on. So if you like this episode, please like and subscribe to the ValuePros Show. And if you're feeling kind, leave a review so others can find and enjoy it too.

Bruce Scheer: And until next time, keep showing up with value.