How to deliver value through coaching with Bruce Scheer and Scott Presse

Bruce Scheer: Well, Scott, I am so excited to have you on the ValuePros Show. Thank you so much for being here and just everybody. I want you all to know that Scott and I just go way back. I've been working with Scott since 2010, and he is the consummate pro. The talk about the definition of trusted advisor. I've seen clients fall in love with Scott.

Bruce Scheer: He's just has wisdom. He's practical loves getting results. And Scott, I'm so excited to talk to you about how to deliver value as a coach. I know this is just such a sweet spot. And I've watched you do this over and over again, with sales managers and helping them go from here to here. But thanks for being with us, and this is gonna be a great episode.

Scott Presse: Great. Glad to be here and talk about something that I've seen time and again make a material difference in terms of individual seller productivity as well as organizational productivity and revenue growth.

Bruce Scheer: Yeah. All the research I've seen is, you know, the the lever is coaching. If you wanna get, you know, a bump in revenue performance and revenue growth, look at coaching, that that is so critical. I know you're gonna unpack this for us, but let let's get into it. Why deliver value as a coach? What what do you have to say for us there?

Scott Presse: Well, it's really the stakes that are on the table that are available if you're gonna make the investment. So CSO Insights has found that there's a 8% revenue bump when there is coaching across the sales team. Pretty significant number. 28% improvement in win rate, and that's significant. So, obviously, one is the leading indicator of the other. And then lastly, an 88% improvement in individual rep productivity. Now why is that last one so important? Well, it's significant. And where that really comes in is that today, too few sellers are delivering too much of the revenue.

Scott Presse: And so the real gains to be found in terms of coaching is getting that sales manager off of just chasing whatever near term deal is there and beginning to build a system of discipline of practices for coaching new and, let's call it, b players in the middle of that curve of performance. That's where you're really going to see that 88% productivity gain.

Bruce Scheer: Absolutely. And, I think, Scott, we both talked about this a bit, you know, huge upside opportunity, but what's reality as it relates to to coaching. And you had shared this with me. We discussed it a little bit, but explain more.

Scott Presse: Yeah. The thing is that it's just simply not taught. In other words, how to be a sales manager. Nobody gets a college degree in that or a graduate degree. What typically happens is that you're a very effective seller, and over a period of time, you outlast everybody else, and so they put you in a position of management. And that's the classic, we rise to the level of our incompetence. And so, you know, if you're a great seller, in no way does that mean you're going to be a great coach and a leader of other people. And so it just simply isn't taught.

Scott Presse: And when you think about it, you know, just imagine a seller in the whirlwind of sales manager in the whirlwind of everything that they have to do each day. There's territory planning. There's sales forecast. There's managing deals. There's recruiting open spaces. They have some underperformers that they're having to manage through. They're having to do training. They're focused on some big accounts. The day in the life of a sales leader is filled with lots of things, and yet they're at the very tip of moving the needle in terms of performance, and yet they're the least prepared and the least trained. And

Bruce Scheer: so Absolutely. Yep.

Scott Presse: On on a scale, I've I've seen it time and again, is tremendous investment is made in training salespeople, whether it be on products or on sales skills, but rarely are sales managers trained. And if they are, it's, well, let's train you in the methodology so that you can, you know, deploy that and model it. But it's not really building out a sales leadership system of practices and disciplines and tools that helps them do their job.

Bruce Scheer: Absolutely. So, you know, perhaps they might have a methodology if they're lucky. Most most don't. And then having an overarching system and an approach, that that's a that's a huge gap and and very often a blind spot where where that is devoid. And I I love one of the things that you like to talk about Scott with this. Here's what here's what's normal. If you could describe this for everyone.

Scott Presse: I have talked to thousands of sales managers and senior sales leaders. And when I asked them, so tell me, how do you really organize yourself to get the most value to deliver the most value to your team and to get the best results? And they all say with almost a certain air of confidence, I talk to everyone every day about everything. And so that almost wrap on a treadmill type of motion day in and day out does 2 things. 1, it doesn't move the needle in terms of the team's performance, and 2, it doesn't make the job of a sales manager all that much fun.

Bruce Scheer: Mhmm. Yeah. Scott, so true. I I was trying to think of a visual for people who happen to be watching this episode. And I was thinking of arrows just shooting around, you know, just like a pinball machine just bouncing around. You know, no no days routine, no no discipline, just, you know, everything everywhere all at once going on in in the life of the manager. And you hear that and some some managers mentioned that with pride.

Scott Presse: Yep. Yep. And we could almost add across every device and application. So there's just a multiplying effect in terms of sellers and this almost cadence of whenever anything comes up, I ping the manager. Whenever the manager has some unknown question or that he needs to or she needs to get an answer to, they're gonna ping the seller. And so there's this almost dolphin family like scenario of everybody's constantly pinging everybody. And as a result, it's it's incrementalism. We're just moving it an inch forward, and so we're having to constantly keep our hand on every seller, every deal, every account, and therefore, not getting the kind of scale.

Scott Presse: Or even more, the ability of a seller to operate outside of the direct intervention of a manager.

Bruce Scheer: Absolutely. Well, why don't we you know, we've described the problem and performance

Scott Presse: that that's guaranteed. You also

Bruce Scheer: are gonna help your your sellers really kinda you'll you'll move the whole curve. Excuse me. You'll you'll move the whole curve. You know, the whole bubble forward where everybody's performing better, more people are hitting quota, and you're not over reliant on on just the few that are actually exceeding quota and carrying everyone else along, you'll literally move that whole curve through coaching. So you've made the case for that. You've talked about the, you know, probably the insanity of of what what a daily situation looks like for everybody involved, managers and and sellers with with no uniformity. But I've witnessed you take organizations like this and then move them into a future state of being concerted and organized and focused. Let let let's go ahead and head there, Scott.

Bruce Scheer: And if you could kinda get get us rolling in that direction.

Scott Presse: Right. And this is really the almost rhetorical question. Do you talk to everyone every day about everything? And the answer, as we've said, is yes. Well, that's not coaching. So each of these words or phrases are critical in really defining and distinguishing coaching. 1, it's 30 minutes. So I'm not just hopping from topic to topic to topic. You know? I'm taking one topic, and I'm drilling deep for 30 minutes.

Scott Presse: It's not random or ad hoc, but I literally have it scheduled in my calendar so that it is a recurring conversation that has a variety of topics during that 30 minutes. And it really is an interaction. It's not just about asking questions. It's really about asking questions and creating dialogue. In other words, helping them to think differently and better about that selling situation. And so it's a leader and their seller reflecting together on the current state using questions that help the seller think out loud. And I'll highlight a series of best practices a little bit later in this, podcast. But let's just leave it at that point.

Scott Presse: It's helping them to think differently and better and to think out loud so that the leader can both be continuing to confirm, to clarify, and in the midst of that questioning and discussion, also share perspective. I mean, I often have to say to managers, hey. Look at that was a lot of great questions, but you've been doing this a long time. Take a few moments and give them the juice. Give them that when I did that, here's what I typically found. Or often, when customers do this, that tends to mean this. And this is how I would usually react. So do it sparingly, but do it strategically in terms of interaction that stimulates conversation as well as provides guidance and wise experience.

Bruce Scheer: Absolutely. And real real applicable learning, at the at the end of the day. That that's wonderful, Scott. So so that is our definition, this this concerted time, 30 minute chunks, where between a manager and a seller having a focused dialogue on a topic domain, which is perfect. Scott, I'll move us forward here. You know, this is also a little bit of the why we're doing things. But could you describe the concept of return on sales leadership?

Scott Presse: This is really the proposition that I want each individual sales leader to consider consider for themselves. And it is this, what is the return that the organization is getting on your sales leadership? So think of the return in the sense of enhanced team performance against the cost of the manager. Is the time and energy you're putting into the team delivering on a real return to the organization. Now that almost sounds like, an algorithm where we've gotta build a business case, and we've gotta quantify it, and it's really technical. Let's just boil it down to a simple question. And the question is, how many of your sellers are achieving quota? That's the measure of a sales leader. Not do they hit their number. Of course, you're always gonna be measured and rewarded on that.

Scott Presse: But, really, how many of your sellers are contributing significantly to their quota and therefore the overall team's quota? That's return on sales leadership. And so I want sales leaders to decide, how can I place big bets? How can I make an investment and deliver value over that 30 minutes to my sellers on a variety of topics in a way that bring back a substantial return to them, to me as a manager, and to our organization as a whole?

Bruce Scheer: And and I love it.

Scott Presse: That's just so critical is that we we do some serious math about placing big bets on coaching in order to get a big return.

Bruce Scheer: Yeah. Absolutely. I love the tangible aspect of this, Scott. I wanted to add an element to this and also an unfortunate element. There's an emotional component as well, I'd say as part of this overall value, the return on sales leadership and the emotion of the rep, you know, are they perceiving those interactions as value and who's being served? And there's some, Scott, I might have shared this with you, but there's some horrifying statistics out there of where, you know, where reps were pulled, you know, you know, for for those coaching calls, did you receive value? And the answer is no. You know, the manager shows up in a self serving way trying to get their answers so they can report up versus truly, you know, getting into the mind of the seller, helping them get better results as a result of that sharing that wisdom and experience and and ideating on best approach forward. Most reps don't see the value, which is sad, but I like your tangible aspect of this as well. Are you advancing your reps, helping more reps achieve quota? That that's awesome.

Scott Presse: And and let me just amplify your point because I think it's very well taken. In this, I talk to everyone every day about everything. Managers are just moving from call to call to call, and so they start most calls with, so where are we in that deal? Right? They haven't done any preparation, and they're really on a quest to know. You have information that I need to have because I have to report it up. Now that's a natural function, but if most of the interactions are about providing visibility to management, then there's this decreasing willingness to, 1, use CRM and to really manage opportunities and accounts in a way that provides visibility. But 2, they just see that, basically, the manager is on a hunt for information, and and he or she is going to be giving me the grilling as to what's the status of, and then perhaps some quick directives as to what to do. And so that is a low value exchange, and then ultimately, there's a depreciating approach to those interactions in terms of emotional and just the, the firepower to get up in the morning and make things happen every day.

Bruce Scheer: Absolutely. Yeah. That that psychological, emotional hit. No no no no good for anyone. Well, hey, take us forward, to to on this. For people watching, this is a beautiful, graph that talks about when to coach. But, Scott, if you could describe so for our listening audience, sure would appreciate it.

Scott Presse: So you've got your basic x, y axis. And on that vertical axis is the ability to influence from low to high. On the horizontal is time. Today versus the end of a sales cycle, the end of the month, the end of the quarter, the end of the year. So it's time. Right? And what you would see if you were on screen here was a depreciation of the ability to influence the later it is in the sales cycle, the later it is in the month, the quarter, or the year. And so, you know, if you're a sales leader listening to this, you know, ask yourself, why would my influence go down late in the cycle, month, quarter, year? And the answer is, they just don't have any time. So they can have some last second meetings, but there's very little runway in which to really change the direction of a deal or an account.

Scott Presse: And so if you're going to be happy with the results at the end of the cycle, during what we call the inspection window, you got to have it. That's going to take place. No organization that has commercial goals runs without a whole lot of inspection at the end of those various cycles. But the issue is, how do you, again, invest time early in the sales cycle, early in the month, the quarter, and the year through coaching. That's the proposition. So the real question we're asking is, so when do I coach? You coach early to get the sales cycle started right. You coach early in the month to get 30 days of highly productive activity. You coach early in the quarter so that you can see some of those more complex sales cycles beginning to move through the stages, and you coach early in the year so that you have really some coverage and penetration into your accounts over time that begin to build a healthy pipeline.

Scott Presse: So it's all about timing and moving from a need to know right now to I'm going to engage in a way that helps my sellers plan their sales activity and to deploy the best strategies and actions really to make it happen.

Bruce Scheer: Yep. Such makes such good sense. And again, back to our theme, this isn't taught, you know, it really needs to be instituted and a focus for people. So they understand how to prioritize when to prioritize that the coaching versus the inspection type of activity that you talked about. So yeah, one one of my favorite, concepts for for managers to help their reps get ahead through in in a particular period or or say a cycle to to to do that coaching upfront.

Scott Presse: And and the pull for daily, weekly, monthly forecast updating will never change. It it's just the nature of the business. And that's why I like to talk about a cadence, a cadence for coaching that organizes, remember that definition, 1 on 1 scheduled single topic coaching calls early in the cycle, the month, the quarter, and the year. That becomes the drumbeat that balances out some mid to longer range efforts with the short term, what do we gotta report at the end of the week at the end of the month?

Bruce Scheer: Absolutely. Just really well stated. Scott, let's, talk next about, you know, just pipeline, which is, you know, so important to coach for. Do you wanna, just give us some insight here?

Scott Presse: Yeah. Having done this now for 30 years, and seeing 100 of unique organizations that I've worked with, this topic of pipeline health is the least practiced, and yet is the most needed in order to get that productivity and revenue bump across the sales team. And so, when I say that, managers say, well, I I I agree with that. But, you know, I I talk about pipeline all the time. And I say, well, do you talk about deals in the pipeline all the time? Yes. Okay. That's not what we're talking about. Okay? So let's step back from a lot of many deal reviews, and let's think about an individual seller and their pipeline.

Scott Presse: Their pipeline is the aggregate of all of the opportunities that are in the system, probably from lead all the way to close, you know, regardless of what language you might use. They're active, opportunities that have some dollars and a date associated with. Okay? So pipeline is not many deal reviews. Also, pipeline is not forecast. We're not looking at any, status as it relates to one deal. What we're looking at are 4 characteristics of a healthy pipeline. First one is quantity, and it basically satisfies if you're looking on screen, here are some sample ones that are there. But it answers the question, how much do you got? And and how much do you have against what is your quota? Right? So so what is the gap to your actual and and then against quota? So do I have enough in there that if I certainly don't win them all, that I've got enough to help me get to my annual quota.

Scott Presse: The second one is quality, and quality, again, we don't want to go into individual inspections, so I typically say let's just look at your top five opportunities by way of revenue. How many of your top five opportunities which probably are making 60% to 80% of their total pipeline in terms of dollars, how many of them do you have active executive engagement at the buyer or customer account? That's a that's a real telltale sign because if they if their big ones don't have executive, then chances are all the mid and small ones don't either. And so there's a lot of risk in that pipeline. And the other is, for again, for those top five opportunities, how active are they? How much communication? How many people have you been engaging with? How many, events decision events have you been a part of? How many are scheduled and in the calendar? So is this truly an active account? So executive sponsorship and activity are telltale signs in those top five accounts. Because if it's if it's not present there, then chances are it's not present elsewhere. So let me just pause there. Those are 2 of the most important ones. We tend to spend most of our time talking about quantity, but quality is equally important.

Bruce Scheer: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It completely makes sense what you're saying. Scott, just as a as a thought, I know you'll talk about some other attributes of pipeline hell. But man, from my experience, I'll I'll look at a seller's pipeline, you know, just look at their opportunities in Salesforce or ask them to show me. And very often, I'll I'll see a mess or or and something kinda strung together with with very shallow information. So I I don't know if you see the same.

Scott Presse: Yeah. And it it goes by a certain code word called pipeline hygiene. Are you keeping it clean? Are you keeping it up to date? Does it look like you've been in it? And can you, in a very facile way, move through the various screens and carry on a conversation with your manager? Right? Now here's the thing. Managers and sales ops leaders will spend a lot of time harping on pipeline hygiene, mostly because there's very little pipeline health coaching going on. And so one solves the other. When you, on on a monthly basis, and typically the cadence we like is that pipeline health coaching is done in week 1. Why? Because we want 30 days of really productive activity building that pipeline. Right? So we are going to do it in week 1 as early as possible.

Scott Presse: We are going to talk about quantity. We are going to talk about quality. We are going to look at the opportunities overall from a velocity standpoint. How old are they? How long have they been stuck in the current stage? How often have they switched out the close date? So those are all factors. So when you're going into the system, make CRM a coaching platform, and you turn over the display to the seller and say, take me through. Let's look at quantity. What sort of changes have been taking place in the last 30 days? Why is that taking place? Right? You know, let's talk about quality. Let's go to your top five opportunities.

Scott Presse: How many of them have executive engagement? So when you make pipeline health coaching a monthly discipline that adds value to the seller. And then the 4th characteristic there, quantity, quality, velocity, and balance by size, by stage, by type. When sellers are taken through and are having to interact with the system, if there isn't hygiene, they're exposed. And right in the moment, say, okay. Well, great. Why don't you go ahead and note that executive contact right now, and let's just do that, and get that completed. So it's a way in which to help sellers better understand their business. Because here's the thing, while managers are very keen in terms of how are you doing as a seller, and I know this myself.

Scott Presse: We go home, and there are other important people in our lives that ask the same exact question. They say, so how are we doing? Do we get to pay the mortgage this month? Do we, get to go on holidays for 2 weeks, or is it just a couple of days? Do we get to have braces for the kids? Right? There are people besides a sales manager who want answers from that seller as to how we're doing. And so this is really a gift that a manager gives to a seller is to help them manage their business in the system and to look at quantity, quality, velocity, and balance, and to be able to say, how am I doing? And to explain it to the manager, but also to be able to explain it to those who love them. And the the then the big impact is, okay, so given your pipeline health, in the next 30 days, what are some of your critical priorities? That's what we're trying to do with pipeline health, is give them an understanding of their business with a sense of strategies and actions over the next 30 days that's going to ensure greater pipeline health when we get back together again.

Bruce Scheer: Absolutely. Yeah. I'm thinking about 5 wins. You know, win win and win win win. And just so many stakeholders when when this is done, right. You know, primarily that seller, you know, where they they get a sense of prioritization, how they're going to manage their time to to have pipeline health It's just critical. And I've witnessed this, Scott, I know you have for years years now. But once this is applied, that this this mentality, this focus, this this hygiene in the system, everybody wins.

Bruce Scheer: Yeah. Because you've got a system that's working for you. It's not a waste of time. Now the seller can see and take the right actions with the right coaching, you know, because everything's in place and and it's being managed properly.

Scott Presse: Exactly. Exactly. So we're we're talking about a cadence, and a cadence begins week 1, 1 on 1 with every one of your sellers around pipeline health. That gets them organized. But let's think beyond just pipeline health to a, a measure of what we call top x. Now x just stands for you pick the number, it doesn't matter. But essentially what we want is sellers picking a few accounts and a few opportunities that in the next 30 days, they're going to place some big bets on in terms of their time and activity. It's not most important or must win or about to close.

Scott Presse: This is a time strategy for sellers. So bottoms up, they're each selecting a few accounts and a few opportunities that they're going to disproportionately invest in. Not exclusive, disproportionate investment. Right? And that rolls up to a manager who's then going to select from that total a few accounts and a few opportunities that they're going to coach to. And they're gonna go into their calendar, and they're gonna schedule in weeks 23 some accounts and some opportunities and the specific sellers that own them to coach to that, helping them build strategies and actions for, expanding that account and or generating or winning that particular opportunity. And then even up to a sales executive, really, where once again, how do we get the top sales officer engaged in deals not late in the cycle when they need a big discount or there's been a big disaster at the at the client, account, but rather get them engaged early to help with executive peer to peer selling. So now you have an entire organization bottoms up and top down focused on a few opportunities in a few accounts every 30 days. And what this does is a phrase I use, it's called prioritize, don't democratize.

Scott Presse: Prioritize, don't democratize. And what that practically means is manager don't talk to everyone every day about everything. Place some big bets, put them in your calendar, don't give everybody an equal number of these 1 on 1 coachings. You pick the accounts that you really want to invest in, coaching for that seller. Pick a few opportunities that you really want to coach on. Go deep, one topic, 30 minutes, building strategies and actions for expanding accounts and winning opportunities. And so ROSL is about placing big bets, then delivering big value to the sellers in order to have a return on their overall productivity.

Bruce Scheer: Absolutely. Yeah. That you you you packed a lot in there, but I do love this topics wave of thinking, you know, all opportunities aren't the same, you know, by by dollar value, strategic nature, that client, etcetera. You know, they're not all the same. So you should focus on the ones that are most important, all the way up and down the line and do that in the in the beginning of the period so everybody can have the right focus and and and spend disproportionate time on those top x opportunities. I I've always loved that concept. And again, when this plays out in the real world, you know, you you can really improve revenue performance because people are have the right prioritization around the right opportunities.

Scott Presse: It's simple, but it requires a discipline by a sales leader to not be totally swayed by near term forecast opportunities or reporting on individual deals, but really investing in sellers and just a few. That's why we say x. It could be 1, could be 2, could be 3. You pick the number that makes sense, get it in your calendar, and and start to see the results.

Bruce Scheer: Absolutely. Well, Scott, I know there was a couple other things you wanted just to kinda get across. We we've got a lot for people to chew on. Again, these things aren't taught, but but they can be. So I think, if you talked a little bit about how do you operationalize this, that that would be so helpful.

Scott Presse: Yeah. So practically speaking, a coaching guide is a organization of some topics and some questions across business territory account, opportunity, or pipeline. And so we will usually build out and customize those guides so that sales leaders have them right in their system, can pull them up, can take notes right underneath it. In other words, they're coming to that coaching call because it is scheduled, and they're gonna spend a few minutes getting their head around, how can I really help this seller think differently and more strategically about that particular situation? And so those guides represent a a way to organize what I call coaching best practices. So let me highlight for you 9 best practices that I found in showing up to, now probably after about 30 years, thousands of managers live coaching on a call, whether it be a conference call, video call, whatever, where I just sat in the background and essentially certified them. Once they've gone through our training, once we've given them the coaching guides, they would then go out and have to use the coaching guides and to demonstrate these 9 best practices. Now, I'm not going to go through all of them in detail, but suffice it to say that, some of the best practices of a coaching call is that you're going to use those guides. You're gonna get in the system and be aware of the situation as much as possible.

Scott Presse: You wanna always start with a good, clear purpose statement. The purpose of this call is to, identify your pipeline health and to determine new strategies and actions for you to take in the next 30 days. Right? Clear, concise. That's that one topic. It's always about developing new strategies and actions for pipeline health, for account expansion, for opportunity growth, winning opportunities, etcetera. You're asking open questions. You're asking thinking questions. When they say fuzzy things like, I hope, it seems, I believe, you know that there's BS.

Scott Presse: And so you dig deeper and follow-up. You share experiences along the way. And then here's here's just a one. It it it it it it it seems odd, but I've just seen it be so powerful is at the end of the call, after all the discussions have gone on, you're now at about 29 minutes, and you basically say, so Bruce, having spent the last, 30 minutes here talking about your pipeline and its health, What are you most proud of that you've done in the last 30 days around your pipeline health? So it's just what are you most proud of relative to the topic, account, opportunity, territory, pipeline. And then you just shut up and let the seller really bring out from within that sense of, you know what? I did this really well, and I feel good about that. Mhmm. Mhmm. And and Yeah.

Scott Presse: You know why that's so important? Because now it's motivation from within rather than just a pat on the back. Everybody needs a pat on the back. But when you can pull out from within them motivations, that's exactly what this is doing. So I've just found through thousands of calls, these nine best practices are what we really train them on conducting using the coaching guide. And that's how you get such a productive, coaching session during just 30 minutes.

Bruce Scheer: Absolutely. Yeah. And this all comes together as an overarching system. There's one other, element of this, Scott, that that I love what you do, and that that's really yeah. Go ahead and explain.

Scott Presse: Practical. Practical. So the idea that every quarter I'm going to just stop and analyze each member of my team around a small number of capabilities, around planning, around sales execution, around pipeline and forecast, and skill development. This is an HR form. This is just a practical guide to say, when I do 1 on 1 coaching with my seller, what do I wanna focus on? You know, beyond the topic of account opportunity or territory. Right? So it's just a way to sit and get organized as you pull together your calendar and cadence of 1 on 1 coaching for a month. But I wanna emphasize, as important as that is, it's more important for that second line sales leader to engage the first line leader in a summary. So tell me about your team.

Scott Presse: Who's doing well? Who's improving? Where are there real some gaps? And highlight for me, how have you been coaching in the last 30 days? 2nd line sales leaders always want better numbers. They want sooner closures, but they never bring a light to their own coaching responsibility, which is, let's look at the people and the strengths and gaps that they have, and let's discuss how you've been coaching as well as how you're going to coach going forward. So a topic every quarter from second to first line manager is show me your coaching plan and highlight for me how have you been coaching in the last 30 days or in the last quarter? How are you gonna be coaching over the next quarter?

Bruce Scheer: I love it. Yeah. So powerful. So second line manager to first line manager, coaching plan, strategies to improve coaching. And then, what you're showing for people seeing the screen and for those that are listening, it's just a it's an assessment form that you can, you know, use for all your team team members and you're rating them. Are are they red? Are they are they not doing very well at all? The, you know, look out. Are they yellow? They've got a lot of room for improvement. Or are they green? They're nailing that.

Bruce Scheer: So we should focus on some other areas. So just a nice systematic way to look at your your team to prioritize how you're going to spend time across them, in terms of their your development ambition for those team members. Then the 2nd line manager should look at the first saying, hey, do you have that in place? You know, do you have a development plan, which is powerful? Well, Scott, we've covered so much, Man, we we could just go on and on on this, and you've got so much experience, but we better break for now. But and just in conclusion, anything else you wanted to say before we break, and especially if you could let people know how to get in touch with you?

Scott Presse: Okay. Great. Well, in conclusion, ROSL, return on sales leadership. And the simple question is, are you delivering value to your sellers? And is that enabling them to better achieve quota? That's what this whole podcast has been about, and I hope that some of the concepts and tools that, we've talked about today could be really some conversation that we might have going forward. So you can, reach me on LinkedIn, Scott Presse, and you can, email me at spresse, s p r e s s e, atnewportconsultancy.com.

Bruce Scheer: Awesome. And then you guys, you can always find Scott through valuepros.io as well as well. And, Scott will be so delighted to help you in putting together your sales leadership system that that works, that that's real, that actually improves performance and make sure everybody is learning and growing and having a lot more fun when performance is there. And Scott's good at making that happen. So Scott, thanks so much for your time and your energy and sharing this wisdom with, the on the ValuePros Show. Really appreciate it.

Scott Presse: Okay. Cheers. Bye.